Obama and the Muslims
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Obama and the Muslims
Yesterday, I noticed that all the coverage of Obama's trip was along these lines: "Obama is opening up a dialogue with Muslims..." "Obama is appealing to the Muslim world for a fresh start..." "Obama tells Muslim world that U.S. is not at war with Islam..."
I wonder if it strikes anyone else as odd that the President and/or the media are presenting this trip as a dialogue between a state (the U.S.) and a religion (Islam). I think we'd all find it strange if Obama addressed "the Christian world" or presumed to speak to "Christians" as some kind of negotiating partner.
I could totally understand Obama going to Jordan and saying "America wants to be friends with Jordan, and Americans want to extend the hand of friendship to Jordanians." There, he's the leader of a state reaching out to another state.
But it seemed odd to me that he would presume to speak to all Muslims or to open up a dialogue with the Muslim world. Isn't that a bit strange, for a president to be negotiating not with a country but a religion?
And also, I was wondering, at some level doesn't negotiating with Muslims or reaching out to Muslims or piling all these various nations together as the Muslim world in some way confirm the radical Islamist's point that we are at war with Islam? It seems to me that Mr Obama is playing on their terms: for if you say you want peace with the Muslim world, it's also clear that you can imagine war with the Muslim world. That is, the Muslim world becomes an entity with which you are at peace or at war. And isn't America on firmer ground when it refuses to play that game and says, instead, that America wants a strong friendship with Egypt and with Syria and with Lebanon and with Indonesia?
Is there a valid reason for addressing a religious group as a negotiating partner at the level of a nation? Anyone else have any thoughts?
I wonder if it strikes anyone else as odd that the President and/or the media are presenting this trip as a dialogue between a state (the U.S.) and a religion (Islam). I think we'd all find it strange if Obama addressed "the Christian world" or presumed to speak to "Christians" as some kind of negotiating partner.
I could totally understand Obama going to Jordan and saying "America wants to be friends with Jordan, and Americans want to extend the hand of friendship to Jordanians." There, he's the leader of a state reaching out to another state.
But it seemed odd to me that he would presume to speak to all Muslims or to open up a dialogue with the Muslim world. Isn't that a bit strange, for a president to be negotiating not with a country but a religion?
And also, I was wondering, at some level doesn't negotiating with Muslims or reaching out to Muslims or piling all these various nations together as the Muslim world in some way confirm the radical Islamist's point that we are at war with Islam? It seems to me that Mr Obama is playing on their terms: for if you say you want peace with the Muslim world, it's also clear that you can imagine war with the Muslim world. That is, the Muslim world becomes an entity with which you are at peace or at war. And isn't America on firmer ground when it refuses to play that game and says, instead, that America wants a strong friendship with Egypt and with Syria and with Lebanon and with Indonesia?
Is there a valid reason for addressing a religious group as a negotiating partner at the level of a nation? Anyone else have any thoughts?
VicarJoe- Posts : 395
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : Upstate NY
I would say
he said it as such because to them, religion and government are one and the same.
Plus, it crossed a larger spectrum as such, then pointing at specific countries.
Plus, it crossed a larger spectrum as such, then pointing at specific countries.
BelievHUman- Posts : 65
Join date : 2009-05-13
Joe, I know what you are saying
I thought the same thing. However, I think what Obama is trying to do is neutralize religon a the defining cultural difference between East and West. Ultimately, national identity trumps religous identity (historically anyway).
Rather than look at this a Obama playing into the hands of Islamsit, look at it as redefining the conflict.
I also have a sober historical view, peace usally come about when one side dominates the other.
Rather than look at this a Obama playing into the hands of Islamsit, look at it as redefining the conflict.
I also have a sober historical view, peace usally come about when one side dominates the other.
stihl- Posts : 271
Join date : 2009-05-13
Location : Hills South of Syracuse
Here's an interesting analysis
of his speech that touches on some of the issues you're addressing, Joe.
http://www.getreligion.org/?p=13243
It contains many interesting links; from the first one:
"The key phrase here is what may seem in English to be a throwaway line, "peace be upon them." The four words are essential. In Arabic, it is offensive and socially incorrect to mention a prophet by name without following it with the respectful "peace be upon him." For religious Egyptians, to utter aloud the name of Mohammed or Jesus and not say "peace be upon him" is a form of blasphemy.
But Obama’s highlight, at least in Arabic, was his closing line, "Thank you. And may God's peace be upon you." Speeches in the Arab world nearly all end the same way. It went over very well."
http://www.getreligion.org/?p=13243
It contains many interesting links; from the first one:
"The key phrase here is what may seem in English to be a throwaway line, "peace be upon them." The four words are essential. In Arabic, it is offensive and socially incorrect to mention a prophet by name without following it with the respectful "peace be upon him." For religious Egyptians, to utter aloud the name of Mohammed or Jesus and not say "peace be upon him" is a form of blasphemy.
But Obama’s highlight, at least in Arabic, was his closing line, "Thank you. And may God's peace be upon you." Speeches in the Arab world nearly all end the same way. It went over very well."
cradlerc- Posts : 296
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : West Coast
Also my guess
is that in this speech, he was doing exactly what officials at the Pentagon want him to be doing. For whatever reason, this is part of the "new" strategy of dealing with the war on terror.
cradlerc- Posts : 296
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : West Coast
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