Obama at Notre Dame
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Obama at Notre Dame
For I hope the last time I'll be bringing up this topic. I just wanted to reflect on some of what he said there.
"And part of the problem, of course, lies in the imperfections of man — our selfishness, our pride, our stubbornness, our acquisitiveness, our insecurities, our egos; all the cruelties large and small that those of us in the Christian tradition understand to be rooted in original sin. We too often seek advantage over others. We cling to outworn prejudice and fear those who are unfamiliar. Too many of us view life only through the lens of immediate self-interest and crass materialism; in which the world is necessarily a zero-sum game. The strong too often dominate the weak, and too many of those with wealth and with power find all manner of justification for their own privilege in the face of poverty and injustice."
It starts pretty strong, but then it becomes an attack on the usual suspects--there's nothing broken in a culture with rampant illegitimacy, poor education, base sexual behavior, etc. It's somehow the successful person's "privilege" to be successful, not the result of anything like postponing self-gratification, hard work, etc. It's a shame the way this passage turns from looking at how one's own behavior might fail oneself and becomes about how someone else is dominating you, so that your poverty and your suffered injustices are someone else's fault.
On abortion: "Maybe we won't agree on abortion, but we can still agree that this heart-wrenching decision for any woman is not made casually, it has both moral and spiritual dimensions."
I don't really think we can agree on that. I think your side, Mr. Obama, has drained the decision of its moral and spiritual dimensions as a means of justifying it, and I think your side constantly tells women that it is not only not a heart-wrenching decision, but that it is responsible, and indeed that women achieve true freedom only because of abortion.
"Let's honor the conscience of those who disagree with abortion, and draft a sensible conscience clause, and make sure that all of our health care policies are grounded not only in sound science, but also in clear ethics, as well as respect for the equality of women."
If by this conscience clause, he means that people who are pro-life should not be required to act against conscience or face losing their careers, that would certainly be welcome.
"Each side will continue to make its case to the public with passion and conviction. But surely we can do so without reducing those with differing views to caricature."
I'm not at all sure we're capable of that. I certainly don't feel like pro-life parties are treated with respect. Even in the transcript, the White House says interruptions are from "anti-abortion protesters." But if we say he's "pro-abortion," we're told that's a caricature. Even the terms of the debate as Obama expresses it caricature those who defend life. "Anti-abortion protesters" are contrasted with "respect for the equality of women," as if those things are really set against one another.
Most of the speech is pretty banal. But these were to me the salient features. I do give him credit, finally, for saying that our differences are, in the end, irreconciliable. That's true.
"And part of the problem, of course, lies in the imperfections of man — our selfishness, our pride, our stubbornness, our acquisitiveness, our insecurities, our egos; all the cruelties large and small that those of us in the Christian tradition understand to be rooted in original sin. We too often seek advantage over others. We cling to outworn prejudice and fear those who are unfamiliar. Too many of us view life only through the lens of immediate self-interest and crass materialism; in which the world is necessarily a zero-sum game. The strong too often dominate the weak, and too many of those with wealth and with power find all manner of justification for their own privilege in the face of poverty and injustice."
It starts pretty strong, but then it becomes an attack on the usual suspects--there's nothing broken in a culture with rampant illegitimacy, poor education, base sexual behavior, etc. It's somehow the successful person's "privilege" to be successful, not the result of anything like postponing self-gratification, hard work, etc. It's a shame the way this passage turns from looking at how one's own behavior might fail oneself and becomes about how someone else is dominating you, so that your poverty and your suffered injustices are someone else's fault.
On abortion: "Maybe we won't agree on abortion, but we can still agree that this heart-wrenching decision for any woman is not made casually, it has both moral and spiritual dimensions."
I don't really think we can agree on that. I think your side, Mr. Obama, has drained the decision of its moral and spiritual dimensions as a means of justifying it, and I think your side constantly tells women that it is not only not a heart-wrenching decision, but that it is responsible, and indeed that women achieve true freedom only because of abortion.
"Let's honor the conscience of those who disagree with abortion, and draft a sensible conscience clause, and make sure that all of our health care policies are grounded not only in sound science, but also in clear ethics, as well as respect for the equality of women."
If by this conscience clause, he means that people who are pro-life should not be required to act against conscience or face losing their careers, that would certainly be welcome.
"Each side will continue to make its case to the public with passion and conviction. But surely we can do so without reducing those with differing views to caricature."
I'm not at all sure we're capable of that. I certainly don't feel like pro-life parties are treated with respect. Even in the transcript, the White House says interruptions are from "anti-abortion protesters." But if we say he's "pro-abortion," we're told that's a caricature. Even the terms of the debate as Obama expresses it caricature those who defend life. "Anti-abortion protesters" are contrasted with "respect for the equality of women," as if those things are really set against one another.
Most of the speech is pretty banal. But these were to me the salient features. I do give him credit, finally, for saying that our differences are, in the end, irreconciliable. That's true.
VicarJoe- Posts : 395
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : Upstate NY
Call me cynical
but I expect much of it was written by Jon Fauvreaux, the 20 something "wunderkid" who wrote most of his speeches during the campaign. And "fear of those who are unfamilar" was a theme of his speeches. I'm not impressed by anything Obama has said-much less so if much of the trite pablum is handed to him to tweak a little-but basically recite.
I'm much more impressed by the students who took the way less travelled by NOT attending the graduation, those who had prayer vigils and those who signed petitions against his speaking.
I'm much more impressed by the students who took the way less travelled by NOT attending the graduation, those who had prayer vigils and those who signed petitions against his speaking.
AustenFan- Posts : 194
Join date : 2009-05-13
Fear those who are unfamiliar
is funny, because its one of those code phrases that doesn't really mean what it purports to mean on the surface.
It doesn't mean, "you may be an atheist or only mildly spiritual, but don't fear those who put God first in their lives, as unfamiliar as that is in our culture."
It doesn't mean, "you yourself may enjoy vulgar humor and pornographic images, but don't fear those unfamiliar souls who opt for beauty rather than coarseness and a spiritual, connected love rather than the promiscuous hook-up culture."
It doesn't mean, "you and the media culture who shapes your values may believe that marriage is something to tinker with and that human life is disposable, and you likely won't be familiar with people who reasonably think otherwise, that marriage is something to revere and that life is something of inalienable worth, but you need not fear such people, much as the NY Times and the mainstream media tells you to."
It's one of those rhetorical tropes that always means that anyone who differs with the man does so not out of conviction or intellect, but out of panic.
It doesn't mean, "you may be an atheist or only mildly spiritual, but don't fear those who put God first in their lives, as unfamiliar as that is in our culture."
It doesn't mean, "you yourself may enjoy vulgar humor and pornographic images, but don't fear those unfamiliar souls who opt for beauty rather than coarseness and a spiritual, connected love rather than the promiscuous hook-up culture."
It doesn't mean, "you and the media culture who shapes your values may believe that marriage is something to tinker with and that human life is disposable, and you likely won't be familiar with people who reasonably think otherwise, that marriage is something to revere and that life is something of inalienable worth, but you need not fear such people, much as the NY Times and the mainstream media tells you to."
It's one of those rhetorical tropes that always means that anyone who differs with the man does so not out of conviction or intellect, but out of panic.
VicarJoe- Posts : 395
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : Upstate NY
That impressed me too.
AustenFan wrote:
I'm much more impressed by the students who took the way less travelled by NOT attending the graduation, those who had prayer vigils and those who signed petitions against his speaking.
They showed that on the morning news.
Nice analysis by Joe. I noticed too how he mixed in the "fear of the unfimilar" with (the correct) premise of Man's fallen nature. Unfortunatey, the "unfamiliar" also means those who disagree fundamental morality. We aren't afraid and they are not unfamilar.
Stihl
Last edited by stihl on Mon May 18, 2009 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
stihl- Posts : 271
Join date : 2009-05-13
Location : Hills South of Syracuse
I agree that there was a lot of coded language.
"Too many of us view life only through the lens of immediate self-interest and crass materialism; in which the world is necessarily a zero-sum game. The strong too often dominate the weak, and too many of those with wealth and with power find all manner of justification for their own privilege in the face of poverty and injustice."
I agree that this was banal--it could have been lifted from one of the many speeches I sat through myself, recently. I always tend to hear it as an indictment of the students at high-tuition universities. Like, say, Notre Dame. ;)
I agree that this was banal--it could have been lifted from one of the many speeches I sat through myself, recently. I always tend to hear it as an indictment of the students at high-tuition universities. Like, say, Notre Dame. ;)
cradlerc- Posts : 296
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : West Coast
Right, now that you''re 120K in debt
It's time to stop worrying about money. LOL
Someone pointed out that until recently the Obamas were making half a million a year and giving less than 1% to charity, so the message to avoid the brass rings and live to serve others is a bit "meh!"
Someone pointed out that until recently the Obamas were making half a million a year and giving less than 1% to charity, so the message to avoid the brass rings and live to serve others is a bit "meh!"
VicarJoe- Posts : 395
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : Upstate NY
Well, it has just become such a washed-out term.
Does service to others mean giving my money? Giving my time? Being nice to my students instead of giving them the smackdown? In today's parlance, especially int he world of women's magazines, "service to others" often means taking a spa day so you'r not such a holy terror to others.
That's my kind of service.
That's my kind of service.
cradlerc- Posts : 296
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : West Coast
I thought this was a good response
to Obama's speech and to the call for dialogue in general:
http://blog.beliefnet.com/viamedia/2009/05/obama-at-notre-dame.html
I liked this:
"The political realities are this, and have been forever: Self-described abortion "moderates" accuse pro-lifers of being "all or nothing" in their approach. The reality is that smaller measures to limit and regulate the abortion license are never proposed by abortion proponents, but by pro-lifers, and, further, are always opposed to the death by abortion-proponents. Have you ever heard of an parental notification law or laws requiring abortion facilities to be regulated at the same level as medical clinics being co-sponsored by a state branch of NARAL and the NRLC? "
She also makes the point that this is really about Catholic higher education. And that's worth a discussion of its own, probably.
http://blog.beliefnet.com/viamedia/2009/05/obama-at-notre-dame.html
I liked this:
"The political realities are this, and have been forever: Self-described abortion "moderates" accuse pro-lifers of being "all or nothing" in their approach. The reality is that smaller measures to limit and regulate the abortion license are never proposed by abortion proponents, but by pro-lifers, and, further, are always opposed to the death by abortion-proponents. Have you ever heard of an parental notification law or laws requiring abortion facilities to be regulated at the same level as medical clinics being co-sponsored by a state branch of NARAL and the NRLC? "
She also makes the point that this is really about Catholic higher education. And that's worth a discussion of its own, probably.
cradlerc- Posts : 296
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : West Coast
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