Two quotations

These are two quotations that fall around 65 to 75 years apart, one near the beginning of the century by an English polymath, the other closer to our own day by a Czech dissident and novelist.

The first is GK Chesterton from one of his occasional essays:

"Do not be proud of the fact that your grandmother was shocked at hearing something which you are accustomed to seeing and hearing without being shocked.... It may be that your grandmother was an extremely lively and vital animal, and that you are a paralytic."

The second is Milan Kundera, from the end of his story "The Border" in The Book of Laughter and Forgetting, as the characters converge on a nude beach to congratulate themselves on their fleshly liberty in the wake of the sexual revolution:

"Then they spoke of many things: the temperature of the water, the hypocrisy of a society that cripples body and soul, the beauties of the island.... [A] man with an extraordinary paunch began developing the theory that Western civilization was on its way out and we would soon be freed once and for all from the bonds of Judeo-Christian thought--statements that Jan [the protagonist] had heard ten, twenty, thirty, a hundred, five hundred, a thousand times before--and for the time being those few feet of beach felt like a university auditorium. On and on the man talked. The others listened with interest, their naked genitals staring dully, sadly, listlessly at the sand."

To me, reading these two passages together creates a way of seeing that is pretty damn profound. Each passage is genius in its own way, I think, but when you see the way they each inform the other... well, for me, this pretty much captures the great and perfect irony of our era--that the more "liberated" we become, the more freed we are from the restrictions of modesty and decorum, we don't experience an erotic awakening but rather an erotic deadening.

Is it really true that once upon a time, there was an erotic thrill to seeing a girl's ankle or knee? How could our lives be more erotic once the landscape of the erotic could be covered with two pasties and a piece of floss?

I worked with a girl once, a very pretty girl, who was a bit of a neo-hippie. She went to some big hippie extravaganza where people chose to walk around topless and there was a steam room where great groups of strangers would sit together in the nude. She bumped into one of our co-workers there on a Saturday, and she came back on Monday and reported to me that she thought there was "something wrong" with our co-worker. Apparently, when he saw her nude, he had the audacity to let his eyes wander over her body. How could someone be so gross as to look at a naked woman as if she were an object of desire?!?!?

Well, that is the sentiment of a listless and paralyzed eros.

Funny how sometimes when you read a post and then flip to online news, something related to the topic is currently newsworthy. Well...... Love Land, the newly opened park in Chongqing, China (on the Yangtze) was shut down and literally taken down by the Chinese authorities. Generally speaking, sex and nudity is still taboo in China except of course in several large international cities.

This is a bold topic to discuss on a religion forum IMO but I'm certainly willing if there is interest beyond Joe and I. Without a woman's perspective, there would be alot missing in the discussion.

The sexually explicit theme park was envisioned as "a path towards sex education and a way to help adults 'enjoy a harmonious sex life.'"

A theme park.

I can hardly think of anything less likely to enhance my erotic life than a theme park.

the U.S. media coverage is typically crass and full of pity for a China that hasn't embraced its inner porn star.

It's an interesting facet of the sexual liberation ideology that it has contempt for modesty and decorum, though I tend to think of that as a kind of unconscious rage at what the libertines have lost and are diminished to be without.

I particularly enjoyed the Kundera. The earrnestness these very liberated people uhh-exhibit is amusing, and the naked genitals lying listlessly on the sand was really a great image.

I agree with Joe-A theme park would not enhance my erotic life, but I'm not a big fan of theme parks, anyway. I'm hoping to be one of the only upper middle class people (well, until my husband loses his job in July, anyway) with kids who live in MidAtlantic States who never goes to Disney World, The heat and the crowds would be a big turn off. I can only imagine how much worse it would be to see all the tourists in the nude ;)

As far as the hippy-She was either disingenous or stupid. Of course men look at women-even if they aren't googling them up and down. They just do it more discreetly. I think I'd find it really hard not to laugh if someone said something like that to me-that there was "something wrong" with the guy.

I listed my humor as being sophmoric, I didn't want to disappoint.

The image that really struck me was of body that sits in warm water. If you stay in a hot tube long enough, your muscles will atrophy. That is like our souls in a over sexualized society. If you leave your soul in the "hot tube" of eroticism, it will atrophy.

Also, Administrator, I could not put up a new post this morning. Any ideas?

Stihl

but the story "The Border" is just perfect. Funny and profound.

Stihl: Was the sand hot? LOL My own humor is "freshmanly" or whatever the adjective would be.

As for not being able to put up a new post... :?:

because I'm a bit fixated on the topic.

One of the ideas "The Border" explores has to do with the fact that Jan's girlfriend likes to pee with the door open.



The reason she does it is because somehow bathroom functions, like sex, have been mystified, and she is committed to demystifying life as much as she can.

The ruthless desmystification of life is at the heart of modernity, Kundera suggests, and not to put too fine a point on it, a demystified life is one lacking eros. Eros is mystery. And mystery is, of course, at the heart of our faith.

One then contemplates the notion that love of God is driven by eros. Something your Christian mystics would love.

Joe,

I had to ponder your topic for a bit.

I think your point on demystification relates to another phenomia we see in society, reducing greatness to charactictures. If somebody has exhibited true greatness, that person has reached levels on this Earth that few reach. He has essentially gone beyond what we can control. Rather than acknowledging greatness, it becomes necessary to turn that peson into a charactictures, essentially mocking them and reducing them to a level we can control.

We see examples of this charactictures of Abraham Licoln and George Washingtion shlepping furniture in February. Another would be the characticture of Christ pointing, a thumb up and a big cheesy grin on His face.

By allowing for mysteries, we acknowledge that we have no control over our exsistence except for what we choose to do with our souls.
Demystification allows for the illusion of control. or I do have two or three vices.