Meet your new pope

Go down

Meet your new pope

Post  VicarJoe on Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:02 pm



Coming this Fall: Pope Joan The Movie!, starring Johanna Wokalek, the papal hottie above.

The movie is based on Donna Cross' novel Pope Joan. For a charming bit of commentary, check out the following link:

http://www.popejoan.com/faqs.htm

Personally, I think it's safe to predict the reaction of such a movie so far in advance that I feel positively prophetic. Those wicked clerics! That sexist church! That poor, pro-choice, feminist, sexually liberated heroine! It's "Boys Don't Cry" for the ninth century! (I wonder why she didn't reveal the secret of Jesus' marriage to Magdalene?) Just another Vatican cover-up!



avatar
VicarJoe

Posts : 395
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : Upstate NY

View user profile

Back to top Go down

And for a pic of the movie star in papal drag...

Post  VicarJoe on Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:04 pm

avatar
VicarJoe

Posts : 395
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : Upstate NY

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Meet your new pope

Post  SursumCorda on Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:28 pm

<<Personally, I think it's safe to predict the reaction of such a movie so far in advance that I feel positively prophetic. Those wicked clerics! That sexist church! That poor, pro-choice, feminist, sexually liberated heroine! It's "Boys Don't Cry" for the ninth century! (I wonder why she didn't reveal the secret of Jesus' marriage to Magdalene?) Just another Vatican cover-up!>>


I agree -- I can practically hear those Vatican conspiracy/anti-Church people sharpening their knives. (Or should I say, pencils.)
avatar
SursumCorda

Posts : 54
Join date : 2009-05-13
Location : North Dakota

View user profile

Back to top Go down

The legend of Pope Joan

Post  AustenFan on Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:51 am

has been around a long time, and numerous books have been written about her. I'm actually surprised that someone didn't make a movie before this, but I suppose that given the popularity of Dan's Brown's books this was the next step-first Mary Magadalene was the closest "apostle" to Jesus. Now there will be a movie about the first female head of the church. As a woman who supports the ordination of women (and no I don't want to debate it) I would have been interested to see a thoughtful movie about Pope Joan. I don't know if she existed, but some historians I know of think she did-and some are male. I haven't read Donna Cross' book and have no desire to. But it wouldn't be a thoughtful movie; It will be as Joe suggested-a "hottie" sexually liberated heroine and the evil Vatican theme,. Of course, it's obligatory too, that a woman in that position would have to be a hottie. The woman in the photos looks sort of horse like to me, but I suppose she could be considered a hottie.There probably wouldn't be any consideration of the idea that were a woman to go through all that she might legitimately have a spiritual calling to the ordained ministry. So various people can get on board for disliking the idea of what they might do to the legend-both those who support the ordination of women and those who don't. The people who WILL probably flock to it will be people who hate the "evil" Roman Catholic Church for a variety of reasons; I don't, so I won't be seeing it..

Let me add, too, on an aside note, that I'm glad agent 86 isn't here to give his two cents. I find so many of his views unappealing that I think he does the the cause of the support of women's ordination no good whatsoever.

Hi, 86. I think he's probably a lurker too, Laughing
avatar
AustenFan

Posts : 194
Join date : 2009-05-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

I kind of doubt the existence of Pope Joan, myself.

Post  cradlerc on Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:36 pm

But I kinda like the comment about there being no Protestant movements, indeed, no anti-church sentiments at all, before Martin Luther. Imagine, such a scholar is now making a movie! LOL.
avatar
cradlerc

Posts : 296
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : West Coast

View user profile

Back to top Go down

And it also needs to be noted

Post  cradlerc on Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:40 pm

that while conspiracies and coverups are, of course, necessary for the movie to proceed, it's not really an accurate description of the actual state of affairs. Pope Joan was, apparently, much talked about. I like where she gives birth while getting on a horse--how does that happen, exactly? Shocked
avatar
cradlerc

Posts : 296
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : West Coast

View user profile

Back to top Go down

I am impatient

Post  AustenFan on Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:49 pm

with such stupidity-That someone making a movie about Pope Joan doesn't know that there were any Protestant and anti-church sentiments before Martin Luther.
avatar
AustenFan

Posts : 194
Join date : 2009-05-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Papal hottie?

Post  stihl on Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:57 am

Only in a dark confessional.

She is a German actress and, I suppose, her standing as "hottie" is in the eye of the viewer.

Personally, I admire strong women. I come from a family of tough women so it is hard not to.

I have been intriqued by Joan of Arc, she was featured in my Military History magazine. She was the real deal.

I was wondering if the name Pope Joan was somehow tied JOA.

The history of Popes is interesting and not always pretty.

I'd like to know if their is a basis for this story of Pope Joan.
avatar
stihl

Posts : 271
Join date : 2009-05-13
Location : Hills South of Syracuse

View user profile

Back to top Go down

From what I can tell

Post  VicarJoe on Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:30 am

There was some late medieval speculation about a cross-dressing woman who fooled men and was elected pope, but the earliest reliable sources for such a story are written around five hundred years after she is purported to have lived and reigned. That is, she was supposedly pope in the 9th century, according to someone writing in the 13th century. That gets a bit complicated, however, by manuscript transmission culture, because some earlier texts and manuscripts, in being re-copied, are also rewritten and new stories are added. So you may have a 13th century manuscript of a 10th century text, and it may include some accretions and additions that are not found in earlier manuscripts. Textual scholars are well aware of this practice, and so if they come across a 10th century text (in a 13th century manuscript) they know they have to cross-check it against the earliest known manuscripts to figure out what was added by the copyists. If a 13th century manuscript of a 10th century history mentions Pope Joan, but 12th century and 11th century and 10th century, etc., manuscripts do not, then textual scholars can date the appearance of that story to the 13th century--they will not attribute it to the 10th century author.

That's textual scholarship. A different matter altogether is people hearing such a story and wishing it were true, for whatever reason. There's very little by way of scholarship that will convince them otherwise.

The story of Pope Joan appears in manuscripts some 400 years after she was purported to have lived, but never earlier. (Unless you take into account that the legends can't even nail down what century she was supposed to have lived in--some say the 9th, others the 11th. Then again, some call her Pope Agnes, so the name changes too.)

For obvious reasons, it's a juicy story, and just the kind of thing late medieval people loved to read. But round about 1587, an Italian humanist applied the new textual criticism to the legend and showed it as mere legend. And that was that, for a long while.

Somehow, seriously, we've moved past the humanist moment where it mattered whether something was historical or legendary. We live in an era where that distinction no longer seems to hold water. In fact, that's basically what postmodernism is--a refusal to distinguish story and history. So a lot of legends that the early modern era put away are making a return in the postmodern moment.
avatar
VicarJoe

Posts : 395
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : Upstate NY

View user profile

Back to top Go down

If it were true, it would have to be....

Post  stihl on Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:02 pm

...before there was a standing urinal in the Pope's priviate bathroom, Pope Joan whould have been sitting (thank God you got these emoticons).

I enjoyed your desription of post modernism. I am not real familar with all of the definition of the various world views. I appreciate your definition.

Isn't it ironic how a world -view that, one hand, revels in the importance of science will, on the other hand, favor fantasy over actual history.

800 AD through 900 AD was the low ebb for European civilizaton. If a woman was to pull this off, she would have to had lived most of her life as a man. That would mean from the time she was a young girl. I doublt as "mysterious stranger" who just showed up would be elected Pope. It is hard for us to imagine just how primative 800AD Europe had become. Is it pausible that it could have happened? Sure. But, look how we argue today over the intent and world view of our Founding Fathers given ample writing that are ony 230 years old. How the heck can you depend on 700 year old writings of something that took place 400 years before that, during the black hole of civilizaiton? confused
avatar
stihl

Posts : 271
Join date : 2009-05-13
Location : Hills South of Syracuse

View user profile

Back to top Go down

It's odd, isn't it?

Post  cradlerc on Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:11 pm

And it's odd that the Catholic Church continues to be such a whipping boy and ground for trying out the odd and fallacious.
avatar
cradlerc

Posts : 296
Join date : 2009-05-12
Location : West Coast

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Why the whippping boy....

Post  stihl on Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:47 pm

....I have said this before, the Church is a whipping boy because it is a large staionary target. What else on this Earth has a well documetned 2000 year history AND an authoriative, documented doctrine?
It is a great target for evil.
avatar
stihl

Posts : 271
Join date : 2009-05-13
Location : Hills South of Syracuse

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Meet your new pope

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum